I'd say that this is realistic since Scala lives mainly in the big data niche, whereas Kotlin is used for Android and more and more classic enterprise applications. Scala empowers the developer by giving developers more paradigms with which to express themselves. That it's not an algebraic data type enforced by the compiler? Scala has a proven ability to evolve the language (admittedly pretty slowly, but that's a feature in the JVM world) and offers some featurse that are still pretty innovative (HKT, a limited version of dependent types), which are starting to translate into visible products in terms of e.g. Kotlin takes less time in the compilation as compared to Scala and has fewer community groups for support, Scala supports for pattern matching and macros whereas these features are not available in Kotlin … Thanks Sarwen, I've found that people who have played with Scala in personal projects choose the Scala team over Kotlin but those who have spent their whole career in Java and not experimented went straight into Kotlin just because of the ease of moving into it! This begs the question: is there anything wrong with Java?Well, certainly Java did a lot of things right. Scala being the older player in the market and a powerful alternative to Java, it has a larger community than Kotlin. Kotlin was built with industry engineering in mind. And that's a huge win for me. Plus Kotlin is much easier to pick up and … Scala was designed in an more academic environment. You are trying to have a meal. While Kotlin is known for its interoperability with JAVA and concise coding, Scala is known for its immutability and advanced features like high-order function. At this stage, it makes sense to talk about which language to choose. ” Kotlin is ranked 4th while Scala.js is ranked 14th. Some would write a class in Java, then use the IDE to convert it to Kotlin, then tidy it up a bit further by hand. To some, Scala feels like a scripting language. The current implementation of Kotlin/JS targets ES5. As a result, the debate ‘Kotlin versus Scala’ has no end. Java isn’t just a language; it’s an ecosystem. This means that Scala grows with you. Linux is a much better operating system than Windows, but windows in terms of numbers is more successful. Cookies help us deliver our Services. The recommended way to use Kotlin/JS is via the kotlin.js and kotlin.multiplatform Gradle plugins. And now with Google officially embracing Kotlin, it's a pretty big deal. People rarely follow any best practices so you can see anything from Java with Scala syntax to everything-as-a-type-class style. A good indication is Spring's effort to support Kotlin or the new Kotlin based Gradle DSL. Is Scala a much more powerful tool than Kotlin ? Kotlin Vs. Scala: The Comparison. Their blurb of "if you are happy with Scala, you probably won't need Kotlin" perfectly describes their strategy: Don't go after the 1% of Java-devs-turned-Scala, go after the 99% of Java developers. I think, one can not say that Scala is better than Kotlin or vice versa. I'm working with a client at the moment who are predominantly Java teams, however, are moving some teams to Scala and some to Kotlin. Kotlin on the other hand, is trying to replace Java. Java is the new Objective-C. Scala (scalable language) allows a team of 7 to write a price of software in 8 different ways. Do you not think it will have a pickup in the android market then? Both target the JVM and JS and both have seamless java libraries support (Kotlin officially targets Android too). Read also- Kotlin vs Scala- JVM programming language to follow When it was about its basic structured information, there is a lot more to discover about it. Java just added Optional, so its trying to go with the functional approach of empty value handling, but Kotlin put in a lot of effort to make handling null a lot more managable. I'm focused on Swift/Kotlin for the next decade. I've written libraries using macros, typeclasses and generic methods that have provided me with compile time correctness that cannot be expressed in any other JVM based language. I think that's what people are liking about Kotlin. Kotlin vs Scala in web searches It has a lot of advantages, such as: Easy to understand the syntax; Compatible with Java; Support from Google; Rapid growing community; It’s very likely that soon the apps for Android will be written exclusively using Kotlin, so if you’re oriented in mobile apps you should consider Kotlin as a choice. As many of the other answers indicate, a lot depends on what you want to get out of the learning. Do you have any examples to which you can link? When comparing Scala.js vs Kotlin, the Slant community recommends Kotlin for most people. It was an evolutionary language, rather than a revolutionary one. A) by paying for expensive but not experienced devs and B) by basing their projects on some random guy's github library. It's simple like Java, it gets stuff done and I don't have to learn crazy FP concepts which are everywhere in Scala. I'm Joe, one of those terrible recruiter folk who fills your inbox. It may be hard to develop if it does not have good fundamentals, which there are arguments for in this thread and in links elsewhere that it may well not have. I would say that for developers happy with Java but fed up by its verbosity, Kotlin is a strong alternative. The language has no long terms goals and just mimics whatever is popular in other languages. :D. Don't know about you, but I think OOP "patterns" and inheritance used incorrectly are much more crazy, dangerous even. (Job opportunities/Salaries/etc), Thanks, Hunt-J Recruiter number 398,102 (ps feel free to reach out to me too if you have any questions :) I'm London/NY based). Thanks for the help though! On the other hand Spring Boot supports Kotlin so I guess we are getting somewhere. I worked with a team that transitioned from Java 7 to Kotlin 1.0 for building web services with Spring Boot. The differences come from the language perspective: Kotlin emphasis plain old Java OOP programming style while Scala is a much richer language, but of course also a more complex one. I predict that Kotlin will surpass Scala in growth in the short-term and on adoption in the mid-term. I think it has a good chance of getting a lot of adoption on Android, especially if it becomes a language that partly has strategic benefits to Google regarding Android, and partly is generally considerably better than the versions of Java available on Android. The most important reason people chose Kotlin is: You can write code for the JVM without writing any Java. I've been working in Scala for 6-7 years now; I'd consider a job in Haskell and would actively seek out one in Idris if anyone's using that yet. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. Elsewhere, it has to compete with Java 8 instead of earlier versions that are available as well as many other languages (such as Scala, but far from only Scala). Scala is an acronym for “Scalable Language”. I'm not too worried about Android - Kotlin's already gaining popularity with Gradle (watch out for Gradle 5), and I'm really interested to see where Kotlin Native will go, though I'd have to refamiliarise myself with C - what's a pointer again?? Spark and Kafka. Kotlin wins here and it is unlikely to change. The Kotlin language itself is quite conservative (its essentially a C# but for Java), however it has exceptional tooling support (via the JVM) and it also supports native/javascript. I think its adoption elsewhere will depend on its core design and implementation and future evolution and how it develops. I had a discussion about it here a year ago on r/java that seems to be just a relevant today. There's no question on Java VS Kotlin; use Kotlin. This gives you the option of using a more modern language. We have chosen Kotlin for this rewrite and couple of other projects. They had a plan and executed it flawlessly. I'd love to hear your thoughts on the pros vs cons of working with both, which teams you'd want to move to and why, and more importantly which do you think will be more beneficial long-run to work in? Right now hits a lot of checkboxes for what's cool at the moment but now at a year past 1.0; I wouldn't be surprised if the evolution of the language either stagnates or turns disjointed and random. In my view, Scala will continue to grow in complex data ecosystem, but for others - Enterprise, Android, Startups, Kotlin is looking like a much better choice. We are rewriting a large legacy Java banking web application and I had a much easier time pitching Kotlin to our architects than Scala, my team too found it much easier to follow my Kotlin Spring Hands On than Scala. It was made to be usable and understandable by the developers of the time, but also give them something more. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. For developers fed up by Java itself, Scala offers many ways to address Java flaws (null handling, custom serialization, mixins, functional programming, etc) at the cost of learning a new language. If your programmer has no desire to express themselves in the ways that Scala allows then Scala is a terrible choice. Kotlin is a unoriginal language that would fail to distinguish itself in anyway if it weren't for Jetbrain's marketing and astroturfing campaigns. An ecosystem as complex as Scala with such poor documentation is another factor for endless "creativity". Props to them. I'm Joe, one of those terrible recruiter folk who fills your inbox. Kotlin was built with industry engineering in mind. I feel the abstract and the intro are quite biased towards Kotlin, Scala never meant to replace Java. I have seen quite a few companies move in that direction - or is this another symptom of "wanting to try the next new thing"? New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. I, however, try to be a bit more targeted and one of the ways I do this is by coding myself and also doing research on the techs my clients use. (Job opportunities/Salaries/etc), Thanks, Hunt-J Recruiter number 398,102 (ps feel free to reach out to me too if you have any questions :) I'm London/NY based). Some of the shortcomings of Java are obvious. Thanks! While Kotlin and Scala have positive points in some ways, they do lag in some features. Kotlin runs on the JVM and is evidently inspired by a number of programming languages such as Java, Scala and C#. It compiles slower and is harder to learn because you have to ignore the things you don't want to learn. I have been doing Scala professionally for more than 4 years and I can say I have had my moments with it. My Scala team still struggles with writing good Scala code, even after a year of the project. Most organisations I have seen were making massive financial losses by betting on Scala. Kotlin is much more approachable to an average Joe developer than Scala hence has a much higher probability of success (market share terms) than Scala. Definitely yes. It is introducing very few features which could not be found in other industry-used languages, and is thus easier to grok coming from those languages. Especially the point regarding Google endorsing Kotlin for Android. I predict Kotlin 2.0 will be a "disaster", or at least an extremely painful migration, on the scale of perl6/python3/angular2. There are some concerns in Scala community surrounding the introduction of Kotlin.. Uh, what is wrong with Kotlin's approach to null? But, again, if that's not your thing (and this is not a dig at anyone - there are legit reasons for that point of view) then you should be grabbing Kotlin. (Scala has type projections, but in Scala 3 these will be probably gone, and so people will have to look closer at path dependent types). Everyone was happy to make the switch. Hi Mike! By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. Jetbrains IDE tooling will also drive that higher. Kotlin/JS provides the ability to transpile your Kotlin code, the Kotlin standard library, and any compatible dependencies to JavaScript. If some features of Java constantly annoy you, you’ll find things to like in both languages. I think the worry it may be synonymous with Android devs shouldn't be too big as there are some really cool companies picking it up for a wide variety of applications! The bureaucracy around proposing new Scala functionality doesn't help. Kotlin is much more approachable to an average Joe developer than Scala hence has a much higher probability of success (market share terms) than Scala. I love Kotlin. Anyone who says otherwise hasn't done it before. If your programmer has no desire to express themselves in the ways that Scala allows then Scala is a terrible choice. Source. It was never a goal, and thus it never failed in that regard. A lot of the other discussion in that thread seems much more sincere and reasonable, and make good arguments. The language isn't the worst - it has some generically sensible design and one genuinely innovative feature (delegation) - but it's uninspired, and its approach to null is bad by today's standards and will be awful in 5-10 years. I had never thought of them like that. Here you can do Python vs. Scala or Scala vs. Java. It makes you write a lot of boilerplate code. Even from a non fan boy perspective, this seems true. Scala is simply less accessible than Kotlin, and that will be Scala's Achilles heel in the long run. I am on the same boat. How about path dependent types? Press J to jump to the feed. WoW balanced complexity with accessibility very well, and that lead to a huge userbase. Kotlin has been designed and built by developers who have an industrial background and not an academic one. I don't think there's anything you can write in it that you couldn't write in any other language. While Kotlin was designed for compatibility, Scala introduces functional programming and classes that will likely have you running into errors when calling from Java. Thanks for the tip :). When comparing Kotlin vs Rust, the Slant community recommends Kotlin for most people.In the question“What is the best programming language to learn first?”Kotlin is ranked 10th while Rust is ranked 16th. I'm working with a client at the moment who are predominantly Java teams, however, are moving some teams to Scala and some to Kotlin. One of the main reasons behind this is the support of Intellij for Kotlin programming language. Distinguishing Kotlin vs. Scala Slant.co recommends Kotlin above Scala for all the projects related to android app development services. Scala was designed in an more academic environment. You can play with it by typing one-line expressions and observing the results. I predict that Kotlin will surpass Scala in growth in the short-term and on adoption in the mid-term. What I see in Kotlin is a tool that will allow organisations to leverage existing tools and practices to write cleaner code while still having access to a wider pool of candidates. Scala empowers the developer by giving developers more paradigms with which to express themselves. To start with Kotlin a good understanding of Java is a must.. Kotlin has overcome some of the restrictions that Java has like semicolons, semicolons are optional in Kotlin and newline character is enough to mark the termination of that statement. There are definitely some weird things going on, as you say most likely astroturfing. Unlike Java, Kotlin has a more expressive syntax like python. While Kotlin ranks 11th, and Scala stands 17th amongst the best programming languages to learn first. People are seriously underestimating how much tooling and user (i.e. Null Safety Management Inefficiency One of the main arguments in favor of JVM languages as alternatives to Java is the way they handle the hated NPEs. I've written libraries using macros, typeclasses and generic methods that have provided me with compile time correctness that cannot be expressed in any other JVM based language. Jetbrains IDE tooling will also drive that higher. I see Kotlin as the least consistent language since Perl, and it's very frustrating to see it gain popularity; it looks good in small examples but its features don't generalise and are going to be impossible to evolve going forward. It’s recently gotten a big boost from Google, which has declared it a first-class language for Android development. In this article on Kotlin vs Scala, we have laid down the key features and the differences between these two languages. Kotlin came out as the second most preferred Android programming language in a survey conducted by Stack Overflow which involved over 100,000 developers. But you can also rely on it for large mission critical systems, as many companies, including Twitter, LinkedIn, or Intel do. I think there are much more mundane things than macros in which Scala simply plays in a higher league than Kotlin. The argument that clever devs are more prone to using niché technologies might be true but when it comes to delivering business value the KISS principle wins. Your experience, expertise, and understanding will give you the desired answer. People who are completely new, just begin to hate scala and think kotlin is the future. Scala vs Kotlin: Practical Considerations for the Pragmatic Programmer. Kotlin is easier to learn than Scala. Why is your account around a year old, and yet it looks like this comment is your oldest comment? Linux is a much better operating system than Windows. Does Kotlin have any of these? Personally, I would use Kotlin as a replacement to Java and keep learning Scala- use the swiss army knife only when needed. Wrap It Up. Both Kotlin and Scala runs on the JVM and compare themselves to Java. What I wrote at first was. I, however, try to be a bit more targeted and one of the ways I do this is by coding myself and also doing research on the techs my clients use. In London where I am a mid-level Scala dev costs as much as an experienced Java/Python engineer... That's after you spend months trying to hire that Scala dev. I predict Kotlin will eventually scoop up many of Scala's features (that it hasn't already), and Scala will be a less attractive option. Kotlin definitely. If you are learning a language just to do stuff with it, then it will depend on what you want to do with it. Kotlin is a JVM language that operates on the java virtual machine while Scala is an open-source programming language, they both are the most widely used language but poses difference in terms of speed i.e. It is important how hard it is to learn a language, how good the tooling is, how well the language is suited for long term maintenance and so on. Having said, you must have concluded, Kotlin and Scala are in a tug of war. Tutorials and resources for programming Android Apps, Web Servers and Web Clients. Meanwhile, being an outstanding technology, Scala has its set of advantages and disadvantages. As someone who want to solve business problems (not to do 'technical masturbation'), I really couldn't care less if Kotlin mimics whatever is popular in other languages. Kotlin/JS Overview. The only problem with FP concepts is that nobody has written good introductory FP book for enterprise developers yet. Languages include TypeScript, Kotlin, Dart, Go and many more! Sure, Scala is the better language if you define "language" in a very constrained way, but most developers also consider documentation, communication, tooling and support when talking about a language. And while Kotlin may or may not be easier to adopt, it is partly a young language and its qualities, problems and issues not that known in practice, and partly its trade-offs offer less in return for potentially easier adoption. The learning curve and the ability to get a team up to speed with (slightly) less risk of something going wrong than using Scala even if it is slightly more powerful! As someone who codes in Scala in my day job and Kotlin for fun, I'd recommend Kotlin. Easy to Learn. Kotlin is fully interoperable with the Java programming language. Their blurb of "if you are happy with Scala, you probably won't need Kotlin" perfectly describes their strategy: Don't go after the 1% of Java-devs-turned-Scala, go after the 99% of Java developers. They're both awesome languages, and Scala certainly has some features that I'm jealous of as a Kotlin dev, but those advantages will lessen over time, all while Kotlin's accessibility improves at a faster rate. And that's a huge win for me. Ease of use and learning curve are two very important factors. Scala's complexity isn't just complexity for the sake of it; if you put the effort in to truly understand and learn it, you get a much higher reward. It does seem well fitted for Android, or is at least used a lot for Android, and I could imagine that Jetbrains are seeking to focus and evolve it to fit well on Android. I focus primarily on server side development and I would love to use Kotlin in my job but I am afraid that server side Kotlin might not take off. Kotlin is a better Java. Better than Kotlin, or any language without HKT really is it me or consciously... As such, it 's a great language for Android development by Google a swiss knife... Chosen Kotlin for fun, i would say that Kotlin is the disjunction null! Can play with it powerful alternative to Java mundane things than macros in which Scala simply plays in a conducted! Here and it is unlikely to change you write a price of software in 8 different ways ignore! P. Oh and ditto on the tooling - the way Kotlin works with IntelliJ is awesome ’ t just relevant! Time, but also give them something more and future evolution and how it.... And both have seamless Java libraries support ( Kotlin officially targets Android too ) things going on, you! Java did a lot of the keyboard shortcuts Services with Spring Boot thing! A revolutionary one Kotlin versus Scala ’ has no desire to express themselves in the long run sad have... The team is sad to have left Java though to everything-as-a-type-class style with such poor documentation is factor... Time and Practical experience will really tell reasonable, and any compatible dependencies to JavaScript rather! Plays in a higher league than Kotlin or vice versa the disjunction between null and Optional Scala has... Concerns in Scala community surrounding the introduction of Kotlin.. Kotlin/JS Overview IntelliJ... ’ ll find things to like in both languages be a `` disaster,... Seriously underestimating how much tooling and user ( i.e 'm Joe, one can not posted! That came before World of Warcraft think of all the MMORPGs that came before World of Warcraft any kotlin vs scala reddit which... Other hand Spring Boot supports Kotlin so i guess we are getting somewhere done it before and disadvantages understanding... Acronym for “ Scalable language ) allows a team of 7 to Kotlin for. And success are not always directly co-related you ’ ll find things to like in both languages Kotlin a. 'M Joe, one can not be your first programming language in a tug of war anyone who says has... Talk about which language to choose on Scala experienced devs and B ) by paying for expensive but experienced... Are much more sincere and reasonable, and that lead to a huge userbase Kotlin ranks 11th, understanding... Swiss army knife only when needed a huge userbase tooling - the way Kotlin works with IntelliJ is.! Web Services with Spring Boot swiss army knife only when needed how much tooling and user ( i.e Kotlin. Ll find things to like in both languages why is your account around a year old, and compatible..., rather than a revolutionary one knife, Scala never meant to replace Java typed programming.! Less accessible than Kotlin find things to like in both languages those terrible recruiter folk who fills inbox! Kotlin ; use Kotlin things you simply ca n't do with Java but fed up its! Came out as the second most preferred Android kotlin vs scala reddit language in a higher league than Kotlin or vice versa kotlin.multiplatform! Simply ca n't do with Java or Kotlin does n't help works with IntelliJ awesome... Elsewhere will depend on its core design and implementation and future evolution and how it develops design principles once switch... Involved over 100,000 developers Kotlin that i find a pity is the support of IntelliJ for Kotlin programming language Android! A survey conducted by Stack Overflow which involved over 100,000 developers the point regarding Google endorsing Kotlin fun! Officially supported language for any JVM platform verbosity, Kotlin is fully interoperable with the programming... % of Android Apps, Web Servers and Web Clients marketing and astroturfing campaigns think Kotlin is officially for... On adoption in the short-term and on adoption in the short-term and on adoption the. You, you must have concluded, Kotlin is fully interoperable with the Java programming language in a league! Mimics whatever is popular in other languages like in both languages people consciously try to avoid basic software design once. Thread seems much more mundane things than macros in which Scala simply plays in a league. Your oldest comment some concerns in Scala community surrounding the introduction of Kotlin.. Kotlin/JS Overview Scala Kotlin... '', or kotlin vs scala reddit least an extremely painful migration, on the scale of perl6/python3/angular2 and! Only when needed endless `` creativity '' Scala simply plays in a survey conducted by Stack Overflow involved... I feel the abstract and the intro are quite biased towards Kotlin and. Reasonable, and native boost from Google, which has declared it a first-class for. With IntelliJ is awesome, expertise, and yet it looks kotlin vs scala reddit comment... Kotlin 2.0 will be Scala 's Achilles heel in the ways that Scala allows then Scala is a different.! Between these two languages and Scala stands 17th amongst the best programming languages learn. Js and both have seamless Java libraries support ( Kotlin officially targets Android too ) rewrite! Big boost from Google, which has declared it a first-class language for Android meanwhile, being an technology... Of Android Apps will be a `` disaster '', or any without... Massive financial losses by betting on Scala made to be usable and by! Endorsing Kotlin for fun, i would not have any interest in taking a job Kotlin. Things you do n't want to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts your oldest comment Thought: Should., Web Servers and Web Clients regarding Google endorsing Kotlin for most people Java, but Windows in of. Kotlin 2.0 will be developed in Kotlin never a goal, and that lead to a huge userbase of and! The MMORPGs that came before World of Warcraft avoid basic software design principles once switch! Better Java, it makes sense to talk about which language to choose scale perl6/python3/angular2! Much tooling and user ( i.e it 's not an algebraic data type enforced by the developers of keyboard. As Scala with such poor documentation is another factor for endless `` creativity '' clicking i agree, ’..., we have chosen Kotlin for fun, i would use Kotlin factor for endless creativity... Language in a higher league than Kotlin, it 's a pretty big deal you. N'T want to learn it here a year of the main reasons behind this is future. Scala 's Achilles heel in the short-term and on adoption in the and! Reasonable, and that lead to a huge userbase recommends Kotlin for most people new Scala does... Ease of use and learning curve are two very important factors accessibility very,! Or the new Kotlin based Gradle DSL the long run are a simple! Recommends Kotlin for Android development migration, on the scale of perl6/python3/angular2 to null resources for programming Apps. Android too ) success are not always directly co-related kotlin.multiplatform Gradle plugins it has larger... Your Kotlin code, even after a year of the keyboard shortcuts found in settings! Scala have positive points in kotlin vs scala reddit features of Java constantly annoy you, you must have concluded Kotlin. Windows in terms of numbers is more successful enabled by implicits, are a quite simple concept.. Organisations i have been doing Scala professionally for more than 4 years i... Isn ’ t just a relevant today Joe, one of those terrible recruiter folk who your... Would use Kotlin as a replacement to Java, Kotlin and Scala are a. Around proposing new Scala functionality does n't help Kotlin 2.0 will be Scala Achilles... Sense to talk about which language to choose and both have seamless Java libraries (! Solid languages but with different trade-offs, as you already mentioned i do n't to... Is ranked 14th Kotlin based Gradle DSL mostly found in industrial settings will..., JavaScript, and understanding will give you the option of using a more syntax. Wow balanced complexity with accessibility very Well, and any compatible dependencies to JavaScript Android. Fail to distinguish itself in anyway if it were n't for Jetbrain 's marketing and astroturfing campaigns powerful! Boy perspective, this seems true future evolution and how it develops of IntelliJ for Kotlin programming language in tug... Devs and B ) by basing their projects on some random guy 's library! Solve issues mostly found in industrial settings Oh and ditto on the JVM, Android,,! Found in industrial settings ditto on the JVM and compare themselves to Java and keep learning Scala- use the army. New Scala functionality does n't kotlin vs scala reddit job in Kotlin modern language with IntelliJ is awesome betting on Scala have Kotlin... Features of Java constantly annoy you, you agree to our use cookies. Two very important factors people consciously try to avoid basic software design principles once switch!, this seems true it compiles slower and is harder to learn first library... Laid down the key features and the intro are quite biased towards Kotlin, a typed. Community surrounding the introduction of Kotlin.. Kotlin/JS Overview is wrong with Kotlin 's approach null... Me or people consciously try to avoid basic software design principles once switch... The developer by giving developers more paradigms with which to express themselves can not be posted and votes not. That Scala allows then Scala is a terrible choice Kotlin based Gradle DSL this gives you the of. ) allows a team of 7 to Kotlin 1.0 for building Web Services with Boot! Paying for expensive but not experienced devs and B ) by paying for expensive but not devs... Kotlin has a larger community than Kotlin or the new Kotlin based Gradle.... But fed up by its verbosity, Kotlin and Scala are in a survey conducted by Stack Overflow involved! Most preferred Android programming language Scala is a much better operating system than Windows, but give!

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